Embassy of Heaven

John Joe Gray

 

PayPal Donate

John Joe Gray

OpenForum ars technica users plot to kill the Grays

On August 30, 2000, a number of users of OpenForum ars technica discuss how to kill the Grays. This dialog makes you wonder who is really wacky. They probably watch too many movies. There does not seem to be much respect for life or the quality of life. This is a complete transcript except the language has been tamed for all audiences. These people need much prayer.


OpenForum ars technica

Ars OpenForum 2.0a > The Soap Box > Those wacky Texans...

Topic Rating: Not yet rated

Author

Message

vapor

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523

Those wacky Texans...


Sounds like Waco all over again just in time for the election...Waco II

Post date posted August 30, 2000  11:52

Digitali

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Dallas
Reg: December 27, 1999
Posts: 307

Nah, they've learned their lesson for at least another 18 months.

Enjoy our borrowed time. . .

dB

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:02

PandemicBleep

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Global Bleep

What really bleeps is that these bleep's reproduce and have children. Not to say i'm not thankful they exist it's nice to see that there's at least a base for resisting the USG should they make any idiotic moves in law. These people are idealistic fanatics but hey every state needs a group.

I say just leave them alone and install some laser barriers and a couple cameras around the complex leave them alone then when anyone enters or exits the complex send out they'll send a signal and a helicopter to check it out. If sombody is leaving. pull em over.

I really don't think the people of texas or the US want to pay out any money for some sick blood bath or 90 day bar b que while the officers sit around and eat beef jerky all day just looking periodically with their binoculars for some signals. What a waste.

Waco was a big mound of bleep. We need to inject some common sense into our legal system to counter the imperfection of law. And we also need to be able to tolerate at least a little stupidity because it's simply not worth dead bodies. As far as i'm concerned you can't take the freedom of sombody willing to die to do what they want to do. You can kill them but unless they're out killling others it's simply not worth it.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:11

vapor

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523

This could be a great stealth topic to question Geoge W. about.

"Governer Bush, how come you're not doing more to reunite those children with their legal guardian?"

"That man assulted a Texas State Trooper, are you going to let him get away with that?"

Caught between the rock of law and order and the hard place of extreme right gun nuts. It would be hilarious to see him try to weasle out of that.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:18

PinheadX

Ars Centurion

Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777

don't blame it on Texas...

I think the government should stay out of this... but I also think these people are inbred nutcases with little to no understanding of anything beyond their own property.

Maybe instead of the government getting into it, we should just have a group of private citizens form an "anti-militia" group consisting of ninjas and snipers, and take bleeps like this out.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:19

Glocksman

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523

quote:
Maybe instead of the government getting into it, we should just have a group of private citizens form an "anti-militia" group consisting of ninjas and snipers, and take bleeps like this out.


Uhh Huuh.

Sure, and have all of those kids get killed by a bunch of yahoos with no training?

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:33

toshiro

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Takoma Park, MD, USA
Reg: December 20, 1999
Posts: 503

quote:
Sure, and have all of those kids get killed by a bunch of yahoos with no training?

My point exactly. The main reason the government has moved to take them out is that there are kids in the compound. No one wants another Waco.

-toshiro

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:35

Spamizbad

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Republic of 428 W. Third St.
Reg: May 02, 2000
Posts: 801

Anti-militia? If the militia started hurting/killing/raping innocent people outside of their little circle, then I'd say "Bleep yeh". But as long as they have no major plans to harm anyone, I say let them be. They're just doing this to attention to begin with.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:37

Jessica

Ars Senator

Tribus: Columbia, MO, USA
Reg: June 02, 1999
Posts: 923

So, PinheadX, the government should just stay out of this, eh? Despite both a charge of assault on an officer of the law and a custody judgement that these people refuse to recognize, the goverment should just stay out of it? Let them keep the kid? Let them get away with assault? Great plan you have there; after all, we wouldn't want to actually enforce the law or anything, now would we? [/sarcasm]

Serve the bleep warrants. If they don't appear in court, call in the state troopers and haul them out. If they give armed resistance (to either serving the warrants or in refusing to respond to the warrants), arrest the whole bleep lot of them, even if that means going in with armored cars and tear gas. If they decide to pull a Waco and commit mass-suicide rather than submit to arrest, let them. Just be bleep sure to be ready and able to prove that they touched off the gasoline instead of your troopers.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:38

PinheadX

Ars Centurion

Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777

who said they would have no training?

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:39

Spamizbad

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Republic of 428 W. Third St.
Reg: May 02, 2000
Posts: 801

Its to my understanding most militias have decent training. Or is this wrong? Just how well trained are most of them?

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:42

Glocksman

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523

quote:
Maybe instead of the government getting into it, we should just have a group of private citizens form an "anti-militia" group consisting of ninjas and snipers, and take bleeps like this out.


This would also be called "Conspiracy to Commit Murder", among other legal terms.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:50

PinheadX

Ars Centurion

Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777

I didn't say they shouldn't be arrested, if possible... I just don't think we need the ATF or the military going in to arrest some dude for assault on an officer (if it were murder or attempted murder, then fine, bleep the consequences) and if they can get the _main_ guy (who is wanted for assault, IIRC), it will be alot easier to get the children back to their father. I think it should be on the local law enforcement to handle this situation if possible, and not up to the bleeping federal government.

Enforcing the law should be up to local law enforcement (Texas State Troopers or County Sherrif's Dept. or whomever), unless it is just way beyond their scope.

Let's say they "serve the bleep warrants". I'd like to see that happen, especially without anyone getting shot in the process... but I doubt it will happen so smoothly. You want another Waco? Sorry, but I'm not willing to go through that again, and have that be the cause of more retaliatory terrorist attacks (like OKC).

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:52

Glocksman

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523

quote:
Serve the bleep warrants. If they don't appear in court, call in the state troopers and haul them out. If they give armed resistance (to either serving the warrants or in refusing to respond to the warrants), arrest the whole bleep lot of them, even if that means going in with armored cars and tear gas. If they decide to pull a Waco and commit mass-suicide rather than submit to arrest, let them. Just be bleep sure to be ready and able to prove that they touched off the gasoline instead of your troopers.

Grreat plan.

If the kids get in the way, too bad. I happen to think the low key approach is the best way to deal with these kind of people. You start throwing APC's and SWAT in there, you just feed their paranoid fantasies.


Tell me how to arrest them without putting the children in danger, and I might agree with you, but playing commando with kids in the line of fire is irresponsible. Just ask Vickie Weaver's kids about that.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:55

Spamizbad

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Republic of 428 W. Third St.
Reg: May 02, 2000
Posts: 801

Hey, I poked around for some info on this guy; check this out.

Its got an interview with him, amoung other things.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:56

PinheadX

Ars Centurion

Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777

quote:
This would also be called "Conspiracy to Commit Murder", among other legal terms.

Rolling Eyes

fine, take me seriously...

Post date posted August 30, 2000  12:59

Glocksman

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523

Well, you didn't post a smiley or use the <sarcasm> tags. People believe weirder things, so yes, I took you seriously.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  13:02

vapor

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523

Spam;
That sight is scary with a capital s.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  13:13

Jessica

Ars Senator

Tribus: Columbia, MO, USA
Reg: June 02, 1999
Posts: 923

So we just leave them there, Glocksman? Because that is what the "low-key" approach amounts to. They've been trying the "low-key" approach since spring, with no results whatsoever. Near as I can tell from what I've dug up on the case, the "low-key" approach amounts to nothing more than issuing warrants with no intent to serve them, and cutting off utilities that haven't been paid for months (and that the compound can do without anyway).

Given the way that these people have positioned themselves, it is pretty bleep obvious that they want another Waco; they want martyrdom. If the sherrif or state troopers do anything other than what they are doing now, these clowns will grab it as an excuse to start their little holy war (probably with the same apocalyptic end as at Waco). If the law enforcement folks do nothing, then a clear and concise message has been sent to every bunker full of nuts in the country that they can do whatever they want so long as they keep a bunch of kids in the bunker as hostages.

By all means, every effort should be make to avoid doing anything to that "KIDS INSIDE" bunker. If these fanatics do decide to go in and kill the kids in a "we won't let anyone win" move, put the survivors up on murder charges, but don't blame the police for doing their job.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  13:13

PinheadX

Ars Centurion

Tribus: Houston, TX, US
Reg: February 20, 1999
Posts: 777

come on, NINJAS should have tipped you off...

It was a reactionary statement. I'm sick of these "your government doesn't apply to me, only my (interpretation of my) religion does" wacko types. Basically, these people are too stupid or lazy to change the situation through legislation, and they can't own up to their responsibilities, so they figure "I'll hole up with a rifle and a bible, and if anyone tries to come on my property, I'll send him to hell". If they're allowed to break the law and get away with it by intimidating law enforcement, why not have a group of people breaking the law and taking them out? I know how dangerous this would be... sanctioning this type of thing leads to "well, who is next to be taken out?" and "who says killing abortion doctors is wrong?" kinds of thinking. I'm not proposing we allow it, just a sort of vague "I wish someone would take them out" kind of statement, while avoiding the whole "blame the government" issue.
[/ramble]

Post date posted August 30, 2000  13:16

Glocksman

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Glock, GesMBH
Reg: April 23, 2000
Posts: 523

quote:
So we just leave them there, Glocksman? Because that is what the "low-key" approach amounts to. They've been trying the "low-key" approach since spring, with no results whatsoever.


It worked in dealing with the Freemen in Montana, didn't it? What the LEA's in Texas need to do is consult with some experts in that kind of movement and the thinking of its' adherents. Get their advice and proceed from there. Maybe the best plan is to do a smash-n-grab, but from the limited info I have, waiting seems much more preferable to putting kids at risk in order to effect an arrest on a simple assault charge. If we were talking about someone who is an immediate threat to the life of others or was a murderer, my opinion may change, but the lesson from Waco and Ruby Ridge is that to simply wait and see is preferable to a "let's get on the 6 O'Clock news" SWAT raid that can get people killed.

Post date posted August 30, 2000  13:24

vapor

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523

quote:
"let's get on the 6 O'Clock news" SWAT raid that can get people killed.

Well, Sweeps season is coming up...

Post date posted August 30, 2000  15:30

poptones

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: lost somewhere in the desert...
Reg: January 04, 2000
Posts: 3876

I clicked on the chatroom link, but no one was home. Looks like the "Kingdom of Heaven" is a lonely place.

Feh. More nuts in overalls and straw hats.

Hippies...

Post date posted August 30, 2000  19:53

htom

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: eagan,MN,USA
Reg: April 27, 2000
Posts: 161

The local authorities seem to be displaying a large quantity of common sense, for which they should be commended. Smile


Once this starts getting lots of publicity, that will doubtless evaporate and some hotshot will take over and we'll get to have more funeral processions. Frown

Post date posted August 31, 2000  17:37

PreciousBodilyFluids

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: The Peoples Republic of Austin Texas
Reg: April 24, 2000
Posts: 919

The "wacky Texan" in question is going to be on the Alex Jones show tonight. 10pm - 1am Eastern.

He's on right now.

[This message was edited by PreciousBodilyFluids on August 31, 2000 at 22:10.]

Post date posted August 31, 2000  22:05

vapor

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran

Tribus: Mpls, MN.
Reg: May 12, 2000
Posts: 523

Your what hurts?

Post date posted August 31, 2000  23:17