I believe for the first time ever on radio we've got Joe Gray, full name John Joe Gray, a good friend of mine and a great American who has been harassed now for two long years.
I've known Joe to be an honorable man. I've checked out much of his story and it's all been basically proven to be on target and truthful.
I was on Good Morning America today. They were saying the Grays have barbed wire fences. Yeah, they are normal ranch fences to keep the cows out, maybe about 3 or 4 feet tall. They went on, "Yes, but they don't have insurance. They have guns."
I said, "Yes, but they actually have less guns than most people do on Texas ranches. It's all propaganda. Joe has been calling for the sheriff to come and to meet with him and to work this out and he's been framed the whole nine yards and that is well documented.
Joe Gray, thanks so much for joining us here on Genesis tonight.
This is the first time I've ever been on the air with anyone.
I appreciate you coming on. We're in the same boat as you, not being part of this national I.D. card. Joe, how did it all begin?
I guess it started when we got Kingdom of Heaven license plates and driver license. We showed it to the police officer over here and they looked it over and said it all looks legal so we went ahead and got our tags and drove around with them for almost six months.
Then the police officer came down on my daughter and arrested her. The officer was told if she did not come down on my daughter, she would lose her job. So that was a set up.
Let me stop you there. Are you a member of the Embassy of Heaven or Kingdom of Heaven Church? You told me it was basically a religious exemption. You were simply trying to register your title with them, rather than with the State to get out of this national I.D. card already implemented in Texas.
Right. We gave our title over to the Kingdom of Heaven Embassy to get it out of the Texas hands. As far as joining the Church, as far as I know, I never did join the Church. I've never been out that way. I only requested the driver license and license plates.
Well Paul Revere is a great American, but at the same time he doesn't even believe in defending himself, does he? And you certainly do because the Bible clearly states to defend your family. That is not murder, that is simply defense.
That's right. Paul Revere does not believe in the Second Amendment right and I do. As far as following their religion, I don't follow their religion. I don't condemn Paul for what he believes in, but I don't go along with their beliefs. They keep trying to say I'm with the Kingdom of Heaven Church. All I did was apply for their license plates and driver license.
If Christians don't want to be part of this beast system, then suddenly you are a cult. This is ridiculous to call you a cult when it is your family out there, 10 adults and 7 children.
What type of Christian are you Joe so we can set the record straight for everyone listening?
I believe in the Bible. We are going to be judged by His Word in the last days so why not go by His Word. I still believe the 10 commandments are in effect. The Lord Jesus Christ is my Savior. That is about as simple as I can get it.
That sounds pretty mainstream, at least it used to be back when this country was strong. . . .
What happened when your so-called friend took you to go shooting?
He was speeding and we got stopped. The officer came to the driver's door and asked him to step to the back. As the driver was getting out he said to me, "I'm sorry, Joe."
The officer came to my door and asked, "Are you packing?"
I said, "Yes, sir."
"Do you have a permit to carry?"
"No, sir. It is my God-given right."
He grabbed His pistol, jumped back and said it was not my God-given right.
I said, "Hey, Sir, you don't have to do it this way. I'm no threat to you.
He pointed the gun at me and hollered, "Get out of the car."
I said, "My hands are in the air. I am no threat to you. You don't have to do it this way," but they just kept yelling.
I took my hands and moved the seat belt out of the way. They started yelling, "He's going for his gun."
I just sat back in the car with my hands still up and said, "I'm not going for my gun."
He kept saying that if I didn't get out, he was going to shoot my ass.
"Go ahead, if you want to shoot someone. My heart is right with God. Go ahead and shoot."
Well, that made the officer more nervous. He got out there and he came from the driver's side and pointed a gun at me saying that if I didn't submit he was going to shoot me.
I told him, "Go ahead, if that's what you want to do today."
But the officer opened the door behind me and I had my hands in the air. He grabbed my right hand, pulled it behind me and handcuffed me. The other officer slapped me in the side of the face with his pistol. I stuck my hand up in the air to keep him from doing it again. Then he ran back and started hollering, "He's trying to get my gun."
"I'm not trying to get your gun. Here's mine dangling right here." I'm left handed and if I wanted to get someone's gun, I wouldn't be trying to get his, but the officer grabbed my left hand and handcuffed me. Then he started trying to roll me out of the car. Somehow his hand got in my mouth. I don't know if he was trying to hit me or give me some kind of headlock or what, but when his hand went up my mouth I bit down and I wouldn't let go. They sprayed me with the pepper spray three times.
How did you get into this?
I wouldn't admit it for awhile, but I'm afraid this guy I knew set me up, Curtis Hartin. He was speeding. I kept telling him to slow down. He wouldn't slow down and we got pulled over. He said, we're militia. They're not going to get my gun, either. He set a "45" down between us and said, "Joe, if you need extra fire power, here it is. Use it."
I said, "I don't need your gun."
All the guns in the vehicle belonged to Curtis.
You have a former police chief of a nearby city, and I've seen him out there talking to you. You have tried to get the sheriff to come out. All you want is an investigation of what the DPS did to you.
They tell me, "We've got you all on tape." I said that's good. That way we can tell who attacks who. They just shut up. There's a J.P. I talked to while I was in jail. He saw the whole tape of the incident. He said, "Joe all I can see is it took you too long to get you out and they pulled you out of the car."
They are claiming you assaulted them. We all know the State Troopers have a video camera and an audio in their car and a mike on their tie. But now they are telling us that the video tape doesn't exist.
It sounds like people who stand up are the enemy of this world government.
They are going to demonize anyone that believes in Christ. They worry about us because they know through Christ all things are possible. That's the reason they don't want us to have faith in Him like we do. When you have Christ in your heart, you are not afraid of these demons out here. And all these government officials, they know that is what they are. They do Satan's work. When you show them you have Christ in your heart and you don't fear, then they are the ones who start shaking in their boots because they know what God is going to do to them.
Joe, you've got a couple years' supply of food and your own well. You're on the Trinity River. You've got an area where you can plant vegetables. At the same time, we know the sheriff is going to move in. You've tried to contact the sheriff, haven't you?
Oh, yeah. We just learned recently that the reason the sheriff won't come out here is he's been consulting with his attorney.
They brought forth the jury indictment without telling you about it.
It was nearly a month later before I found out about it. That is when they brought that 27-foot trailer house out and put it in front of the gate and poured gas on it. They set it on fire, right in front of my sons at 3 o'clock in the morning. I don't know what all they had in there, but the neighbors said they heard the explosion. It kept blowing up inside.
We got the fire marshal out here and he checked the serial number on the tongue of it and said, "That trailer don't even exist."
When we called the sheriff, the sheriff would not put it on record. The burned trailer set out there in the middle of the road for a week. I think to remind me.
You also got word that if WACO could burn, you could burn.
That is what I was told.
No wonder you are out there defending your property and walking around with your rifle and your revolver. I'd be doing the same thing. The evidence is there. The trees are burned from the trailer fire.
I sent a letter to the Anderson County Sheriff's Department saying that they are too stupid to realize that Communism is in their system and if they come out, bring extra body bags.
Channel 4 TV came out here and said that the sheriff's department called them and said there was going to be another WACO out here.
I also talked to Channel 56, Paul Michael Muller. A Trinidad deputy told him the same thing that it was multi-jurisdictional - State, County, Federal. And, of course, that surveillance camera really proved that point.
Yes, it opened everybody's eyes when that group [dismantled] the camera.
Is there a way to avert their moving in on your property?
What they are trying to do is set us up for a fall. If they come out here and try to take us out, it is because the Fed set it up.
What are you going to do if they move in with their black uniforms and attempt to storm your property?
They probably will try to. The Lord teaches to protect my property and family with every means I can and that is what I will do.
You told the story, Joe, from the Old Testament, about how the Israelites were to go in and take the land, but they committed a sin so they couldn't. They never tell you in church what was the sin?
The Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years because of sin. The sin was that they would not go in and take the land with the sword and that God would help protect them. Preachers won't tell you that nowadays. They don't think you ought to raise up a sword against anyone. That's the reason they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years because they would not pick up the sword and protect the property. So God said, "If you don't think you can do it with Me, then you will be out in the wilderness for 40 years." Then the children came in and did it.
The Ten Commandments say, "Thou shall not do murder." But not kill. The Bible is replete with examples of people defending themselves and fighting off attacking armies and doing what it took to defend themselves and that is just common sense. The instincts God gave us. You've got to protect yourself.
What would you say to the FBI and the
DPS and the State Police and others listening right now?
They are listening right now?
They are listening, yes.
They know we don't have the fear of them in our hearts. We fear our God. We fear Christ more than we fear them. That is what has kept them off the place so far. They fear God and they know that when they come on this place, then God's judgment will come upon them. That's the reason they have been staying off so far.
They've got their little WANTED posters in town now.
Yes, I heard about that. Their propaganda is what they work with. Lie and deceit. Their father is feeding them all the information. We are not necessarily fighting against flesh and blood. We are fighting against these old fires of Satan that have been around for years.
I absolutely agree with you. The evidence is overwhelming. Any closing comments?
I'd like to thank all the patriots for running food out here. I thank you Alex for what you have done for us. And I'd like to thank those who got the word out.
I want to thank you for being an honorable and honest man and also of course John Parsons and the Genesis Network and our affiliates and everyone averting this WACO for now and I hope and pray nothing happens.
Whatever happens out here now, it will be God's will. If they wind up taking us out and putting us to sleep awhile, we will be back with Christ when the end times come to clean up this mess that Satan has started.
Satan has definitely started it and only God can finish it. I hope that God can use us all as vessels to fight this evil. It's got to be done. It is so black and dark and corrupt.
Don't let these old Satan people put the fear in our hearts because that is what scares them, when you don't fear them. You've got Christ on your side. He can protect you.
They know we are not scared of them. When you don't show fear to them, that is when they have fear in their hearts. Some of them out there are good folks. I don't condemn them all. Some are Christians.
You said something, Joe, that was very telling when I first interviewed you the night of the first standoff, when they backed off. You said you know they are going to send the innocents, they are going to send basically the useful idiots. When they do move against you, the evil folks will be sitting back in their cubicles.
That is what they are going to do - send the ones that don't know what is going on out here and they think they've got to do their duty and take us out. I hate having to go up against innocent people in law enforcement. But if they will just look at the Constitution and see what they are doing. You know these judges give these orders. These judges are all part of the corrupt system. They have communism now. They don't go by the Constitution. They laugh at it. The Constitution is designed to govern the governors and the governors don't think they need governing anymore. They throw the Constitution away and make their own laws.
It's the laws of God, the Ten Commandments, I go by and then the Constitution is there to protect them.
Mr. Gray, God bless you. Say "Hi" to your wife and sons and daughters and some of the grandchildren out there. I just want a disaster to be averted. I promise I will stand in the way of any WACOS with all my strength. It is in God's hands.
One more point, you have built basically a cellar for the children. If the Feds do move in there and experience heavy casualties and, God forbid, you guys do as well as the police, the whole thing is horrible. We are all being used here, being put in this.
The children better not be touched or harmed because you are going to get them below ground and you are going to stay up and fight, isn't that an important point to make? You know they put a shake charge on top of the church records vault in WACO and killed the children with that shake charge. They love it.
We don't have any kind of bunker. It is like a root cellar out away from the house and it has two signs on it. One of them saying, "KIDS INSIDE" the top one says, "KIDS." If the kids are taken out, killed, it is because they wanted to. If they take us out I feel sorry for any police officers left here because we have been told that they would take revenge on any officer that is in uniform or any FBI agent would not be safe after that, if they harm these children.
Mr. Gray, God bless you. You take care.